Review of the Fathers Know Best on the Pope

The formating wasn't great so here's a link to a google docs format:

http://www.danchapa.blogspot.com/2011/05/review-of-fathers-know-best-on-pope_10.html

Jimmy Akin’s book the Father’s Know Best provides hundreds of quotations from the Church Fathers on various topics allegedly showing the link between the early church and modern Roman Catholicism. Of greatest interest to me were the 143 quotations from the Fathers in support of the Papacy. Reading the book gave me an opportunity to learn more about the Fathers.


Below is a matrix of the results of my review. However, given my review I will risk providing some overall conclusions.

I didn’t find anything in the Fathers that explicitly taught Papal infallibly or got into ex cathedra vs. non-ex cathedra statements by Popes. So right off the bat I would say the Fathers were not Roman Catholic. However, that doesn’t mean they were Southern Baptists either. Many times they were somewhere in-between. As such, I categorized each quotation from the Fathers Know Best on the Papacy in degrees of agreement. My categories were:

1. No objection

2. No biggie

3. Don’t like the wording, but OK

4. I disagree

5. I strongly disagree

6. Roman Catholic

Please note, I never had to use category six but out of the 143 quotes I disagreed nine times and strongly disagreed another nine times. Wherever I didn’t like the wording or disagreed, I looked for the quotes online and read them in their broader contexts.

Two areas of disagreements with the Fathers stood out. First, Leo, around 450, was acting like the boss of the church. That doesn’t mean he thought he was infallible, but he certainly wasn’t a Congregationalist or Presbyterian. Second, in 251 Cyprian of Carthage’s Treaties on the Unity of the Church says the Chair of Peter is the intrinsic reason for unity in the Church. Interestingly there are two versions of the treaties - one of which is fine. Since there’s nothing before Cyprian that I disagree with and nothing after until about 312, Cyprian becomes fairly important. Time permitting, I would like to dig into that work by Cyprian further.

Before getting into the review, I must qualify the ongoing by saying I am only reviewing arguments that the Father’s supported the Papacy. So this review is consciously one sided and can present an unbalanced picture. To get a broader picture one would have to look at arguments from the Fathers against the Papacy – but I will leave that for another day. Here’s the analysis.

The Catholic Church
Father	Date	Work	Page	Category	Additional Info	Comments
Ignatius of Antioch	110	Letter to the Smyrnaeans	176	No objection
Martyrdom of Polycarp	156	Martyrdom of Polycarp	176	No objection
Muratorian Fragment	178	Muratorian Fragment	177	Unrelated problems	Does imply Wisdom is canonical
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 30	177	No objection
Cyprian of Carthage	254	Letters 68:8	177	No biggie	Does call Peter the Rock
Council of Nicaea I	325	appendix to creed	178	No objection
Council of Nicaea I	325	Canon 8	178	No objection
Council of Nicaea I	325	Canon 19	178	No objection
Cyril of Jerusalem	350	Catechetical Lectures 18:23	178	No objection
Cyril of Jerusalem	350	Catechetical Lectures 18:26	179	No objection
Council of Constantinople I	381	Nicene Creed	179	No objection
Augustine of Hippo	390	The True Religion 7:12	179	No objection
Augustine of Hippo	393	Faith and the Creed 10:21	180	No objection
Augustine of Hippo	397	Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5	181	Don't like the wording, but OK	"succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the apostle Peter"	Augustine hypothetically sets asides scripture and Mani's claims and engages in a sort of natural theology
Augustine of Hippo	397	Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 5:6	181	Don't like the wording, but OK	I would not believe in the Gospel w/o the authority of the CC	natural theology and he means that the books are canonical
Vincent of Lerins	434	Notebooks 2:4-6	182	I disagree	CC provides rules for interpreting scripture due to heretical interpretations	the rule is stick to the universal interpretation and stick to the fathers
Council of Chalcedon	451	Session 15, Cannon 14	182	No objection
Apostolic Succession
Clement I	70	Corinthians 42:4-5	183	No objection
Hegesippus	180	Memoirs	184	No objection
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:1	184	No objection
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:2	184	Don't like the wording, but OK	it is a matter of necessity that every church agree with this church [Rome] on account if its preeminent authority	heretics were rejecting scripture - I agree reception by churches is one way to determine if a book is scripture or not
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:4	185	No objection
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:4:1	185	Don't like the wording, but OK	Questions answered by going to ancient churches started by apostles	heretics were rejecting scripture - I agree reception by churches is one way to determine if a book is scripture or not
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 4:26:2	185	Don't like the wording, but OK	successors received the certain gift of truth, so we have to obey the elders	Unless they are evil, in which case follow the ones who hold to the apostles doctrine
Irenaeus of Lyons	185	Against Heresies 4:33:8	185	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 20	186	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 21	186	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 32	187	No objection
Cyprian of Carthage	254	Letters 75:3	188	No objection
Jerome	376	Letters 14:8	188	No objection
Augustine of Hippo	397	Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5	189		already cited
Peter the Rock
Tatian the Syrian	170	Diatesseron 23	190	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 22	190	No biggie	Peter the rock
Tertullian of Carthage	220	Modesty 21	190	No biggie	Peter the rock
Oregen of Alexandria	249	Homilies on Exodus 5:4	190	No biggie	Peter the rock
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Unity of the Catholic Church - Treatis I:4	191	I strongly disagree	Primacy of Peter, Chair of Peter intrinsic reason for unity	2 versions of the same letter; one does not support RC, one does. Cyprian himself opposed Stephen so I doubt Cyprian held to the RC view
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Letters 39:5	191	I disagree	One Chair founded on the rock. Another priesthood cannot be made	heretics cannot set up a new church
Cyprian of Carthage	254	Letters 68:8	191	No biggie	Peter the rock
Firmilian of Ceasrea	255	Letters 74:16	192	No objection
Firmilian of Ceasrea	255	Letters 74:17	192	No objection		Seems to be rejecting the bishop or Rome's claims to authority
Clement	290	Letter of Clement to James	192	No biggie	Peter the rock
Clementine	290	Clementine Homilies 17:19	192	No biggie	Peter the rock
Optatus of Milevis	367	Schism of the Donatists 2:2	192	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter head of apostles
Amrose of Milan	379	Faith 5:57	193	No biggie	Peter the rock
Jerome	376	Letters 15:2	193	I disagree	I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter	Jerome was confused by the translation between ousius and hypostasis and was asking for advice
Jerome	393	Against Jovinianus I:26	193	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter head of apostles
Augustine of Hippo	400	Letters 53:1:2	194	No objection
Council of Ephesus	431	Session 3	194	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter head of apostles
Sechnall of Ireland	444	Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 3	194	No objection	equates Peter and Patrick
Leo I	445	Letters 10:1	194	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter chief of apostles
Council of Chalcedon	451	Session 3	195	No biggie	Peter the rock
Peter's Primacy
Clement of Alexandria	200	Who is the Rich Man that shall be saved? 21	195	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	211	Antidote for the Scorpion's Sting 10	195	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	220	Modesty 21	196		already cited
Oregen of Alexandria	249	Commentary on Matthew 13:31	196	Unrelated problems	Multiple heavens?
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Unity of the Catholic Church - Treatis I:4	196		already cited
Clement	290	Letter of Clement to James	197		already cited
Cyril of Jerusalem	350	Catechetical Lectures 2:19	197	Don't like the wording, but OK	Chief of apostles
Cyril of Jerusalem	350	Catechetical Lectures 6:14-15	197	No objection	Peter and Paul chief rulers of the church
Cyril of Jerusalem	350	Catechetical Lectures 17:27	197	Don't like the wording, but OK	Chief of apostles
Ephraim the Syrian	353	Homilies 4:1	198	I disagree	Chief of disciples; inspector of those who build	Couldn’t find online
Amrose of Milan	379	Faith 5:57	198		already cited
Jerome	392	Illustrious Men I	198	Don't like the wording, but OK	Chief of apostles
Jerome	393	Against Jovinianus I:26	198		already cited
Augustine of Hippo	411	Sermons 295:2	199	No objection
Augustine of Hippo	417	Tractates on John 56:1	199	No objection
Council of Ephesus	431	Session 2	199	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter head of apostles
Council of Ephesus	431	Session 3	199		already cited
Leo I	445	Letters 10:1	199		already cited
Leo I	445	Letters 10:1	200		already cited
Leo I	445	Letters 14:12	200	I strongly disagree	Peter leader of apostles, so not all biships today are the same rank	"the greater cities should undertake a fuller responsibility"
Peter in Rome
Ignatius of Antioch	110	Letter to the Romans 4	201	No objection
Dionysius of Corinth	170	Letter to Pope Soter	201	No objection
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:1:1	201	No objection
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:2	201		already cited
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:3	201	No objection
Clement of Alexandria	200	Sketches	203	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 36	203	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 32	203	No objection
Tertullian of Carthage	209	Against Marcion 4:5	203	No objection
Caius of Rome	210	Disputation with Proclus	204	No objection
Poem against the Marcionites	285	Poem against the Marcionites	204	No objection
Peter of Alexandria	306	Penance, Canon 9	204	No objection
Eusebius of Caesarea	312	Church History 5:28:3	204	No objection
Lactantius	318	Death of the Persecutors 2	205	No objection
Cyril of Jerusalem	350	Catechetical Lectures 6:14-15	205		already cited
Optatus of Milevis	367	Schism of the Donatists 2:2	205		already cited
Damasus I	382	Decrees of Damasus	206	Don't like the wording, but OK	Church in Rome at forefront or primacy
Jerome	392	Illustrious Men I	207		already cited
Augustine of Hippo	402	Answer to the letter of Petilian the Donatist 2:51:118	207	No objection
Peter's Successors
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:3	207		already cited
Tertullian of Carthage	200	Prescription Against Heretics 32	203		already cited
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Unity of the Catholic Church - Treatis I:4	208		already cited
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Letters 54:14	208	Don't like the wording, but OK	Rome 'Chief Church'
Eusebius of Caesarea	312	Church History 5:28:3	208		already cited
Eusebius of Caesarea	312	Church History 3:4:9-10	208	No objection
Julius I	341	Letter on Behalf of Athanasius	209	I disagree	Rome should pass judgment (on the Bishop of Alexandria), not other churches	Arians violently over through the church officials rather than going through due process
Council of Sardica	342	Cannon 3	209	I disagree	Rome decides if a case is to be retried
Optatus of Milevis	367	Schism of the Donatists 2:2	209		already cited
Jerome	376	Letters 15:1	210	No objection
Jerome	376	Letters 15:2	210		already cited
Jerome	376	Letters 16:2	210	I disagree	chair of Peter - asks Rome to decide	Jerome was confused by the translation between ousius and hypostasis and was asking for advice
Jerome	382	Dialogue Against the Luciferians 23	210	No biggie	see of Rome and successor to Peter
Amrose of Milan	388	Penance 1:7:33	211	No biggie	Chair of Peter and Peter as rock
Jerome	392	Illustrious Men 15	211	No objection
Augustine of Hippo	400	Letters 53:1:2	211		already cited
Augustine of Hippo	402	Answer to the letter of Petilian the Donatist 2:51:118	211		already cited
Council of Ephesus	431	Session 3	212		already cited
Leo I	449	Letters 28:5	212	No objection
Leo I	452	Letters 105:3	212	I strongly disagree	annulled a resolution of bishops on the authority of Peter	Anatolius bishop of Constantinople wanted control of Alexandria and Antioch (contrary to Nicea) but Leo opposed him declaring his resolution annulled
Council of Chalcedon	451	Session 2	212	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter has spoken through Leo	poetic excess (Peter the all wise) - also may be referring to Leo's quotes of Peter
Authority of the Pope
Clement	70	Letter to Corinthians I, 14, 63	213	No objection
Hermas of Rome	80	The Shepherd 1:2:4	214	No objection
Ignatius of Antioch	110	Letter to the Romans Greetings	214	No objection
Ignatius of Antioch	110	Letter to the Romans 3	214	No objection
Dionysius of Corinth	170	Letter to Pope Soter	214	No objection
Dionysius of Corinth	170	Letter to Pope Soter	215	No objection
Dionysius of Corinth	170	Letter to Pope Soter	215	No objection
Irenaeus of Lyons	189	Against Heresies 3:3:3	215		already cited
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Unity of the Catholic Church - Treatis I:4	216		already cited
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Letters 48:1	216	No objection
Cyprian of Carthage	252	Letters 51:1	216	No objection
Cyprian of Carthage	252	Letters 51:8	216	I disagree	Place of Peter or sacerdotal throne
Cyprian of Carthage	251	Letters 54:14	217		already cited
Firmilian of Ceasrea	255	Letters 74:17	217		already cited
Eusebius of Caesarea	312	Church History 5:23:1-5:24:11	217	I strongly disagree	Victor excommunicated the Asian Churches over the days to observe a fast	He was wrong to do this, but he thought he had the authority to
Eusebius of Caesarea	312	Church History 5:24:18	217	No objection
Julius I	341	Letter on Behalf of Athanasius	218		already cited
Council of Sardica	342	Cannon 3	219		already cited
Council of Sardica	342	Cannon 4	219	I disagree	Rome decides if appeals should be heard in case bishop is deposed by other bishops	My thoughts: pastors shouldn't depose each other, that should come from the congregation - but if they did you would have to pick someone to arbitrate
Optatus of Milevis	367	Schism of the Donatists 2:2	219		already cited
Jerome	376	Letters 15:2	219		already cited
Jerome	376	Letters 16:2	219		already cited
Council of Constantinople	381	Cannon 3	220	I strongly disagree	Constantinople has prerogative of honor after Rome	Leo objected to this. Also, seems to show leadership is based on politics and size rather than apostolic origins
Augustine of Hippo	397	Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5	220		already cited
Augustine of Hippo	411	Sermons 131:10	220	Don't like the wording, but OK	Reply from Rome has come. The matter is at an end.
Celestine I	414	Letters 17	220	I strongly disagree	Guard the authority of the Apostolic See. Don't join the fight, judge the options.	Couldn't find online
Innocent I	417	Letters 29:1	221
Council of Ephesus	431	Session 2	221	I strongly disagree	Peter head of whole faith. Request to ratify proceedings before Rome's delegates arrival	Rome came late with word from their bishop that he agreed.
Leo I	445	Letters 10:1-2	222	I strongly disagree	Apostolic See reversed or confirmed decisions	Isn't saying he's infallible, but he is ackting like 'the boss'
Leo I	452	Letters 105:3	222		already cited
Leo I	445	Letters 14:12	222		already cited
Peter Chrysologus	449	Letters 25:2	223	I strongly disagree	We cannot try cases on the faith without the consent of Rome	Couldn't find online
Council of Chalcedon	451	Session I	223	Don't like the wording, but OK	apostolic bishop of Rome
Council of Chalcedon	451	Session II	223		already cited
Gregory I	597	Letters 7:40	224	Don't like the wording, but OK	Peter now sits in the chair of Peter in the person of his successors. Prince of Apostles	Rome, Antioch, Alexandria bishops now in the See of Peter