Responsibility - Evaluation of Arminian Grounds for LFW
Outline of Edwards Arguments in part V.I Arminians say if something causally predetermines our choices, we are not responsible. But responsibility is not the cause of choices, it’s in the nature of choices If responsibility is in the cause of choices, we search through an infinite regression of causes, and nothing is ever responsible. My Response Point 1 is close, but not quite accurate. While our actions can be predetermined, our choices cannot be. Choice cannot be predetermined, else it’s not choice. Predeterminism leave us with only one possible action, but choice requires alternatives (i.e. more than one). A “predetermined choice” is self-contradictory, implying we can choose something we can’t choose. So we think Calvinists are inconsistent for saying we can choose. Also, Arminians agree that we are responsible for our choices. Even though we deny we are responsible for things we are causally predetermined to do, we are not saying responsibility lies in the cause of choices,
Comments
first off, this is a very difficult way to comment. Listening to your response to TF is a trained act. Reading TF's response is a trained act.
It seems to me from where I am sitting to read and listen, you by your LFW, impose upon your reader/listener a most difficult burden seeing TF only responds in writing.
I would like to ask you to come back to writing responses or convince TF to speak forth his?
Your imposition is a burden while his is not. This does give him the advantage! :)
Having said that, I am right now going through the exercise of listening, pausing and rewinding and typing comments at the same time during the exercise of listening to your second response by gabcast. grrrrr
You are a Libertarian and Arminian. Fine.
I am not.
I do not consider myself a Calvinist.
I am a Christian. God, by His Free Will came to me and "revealed" to me a "value".
That value is the "salvation" available to me through Christ.
I want to confine myself to this point and pose a question for you to consider responding to. Also through two other portions of Scripture ask another question for you to respond to.
First, the Salvation value offered to me does not preclude a "fact". I want you to consider a verse and respond to it in light of your position in this debate as an Arminian and holding to LFW doctrine.
The verse:
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
How can both be true that I have a choice to receive Salvation and before that, God through Christ has made peace with me by the Blood of His Cross?
Psa 42:5 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my salvation
Psa 42:6 and my God. My soul is cast down within me; therefore I remember you from the land of Jordan and of Hermon, from Mount Mizar.
Psa 42:7 Deep calls to deep at the roar of your waterfalls; all your breakers and your waves have gone over me.
Psa 42:8 By day the LORD commands his steadfast love, and at night his song is with me, a prayer to the God of my life.
Psa 42:9 I say to God, my rock: "Why have you forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?"
Psa 42:10 As with a deadly wound in my bones, my adversaries taunt me, while they say to me all the day long, "Where is your God?"
Psa 42:11 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my salvation and my God.
and
Psa 43:1 Vindicate me, O God, and defend my cause against an ungodly people, from the deceitful and unjust man deliver me!
Psa 43:2 For you are the God in whom I take refuge; why have you rejected me? Why do I go about mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
Psa 43:3 Send out your light and your truth; let them lead me; let them bring me to your holy hill and to your dwelling!
Psa 43:4 Then I will go to the altar of God, to God my exceeding joy, and I will praise you with the lyre, O God, my God.
Psa 43:5 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my salvation and my God.
How can I have both a Libertarian Free Will in light of these two passages of Scripture from Psalms?
“You are a Libertarian and Arminian. Fine.
I am not.
I do not consider myself a Calvinist.”
Natamllc you claim here that you are not a calvinist.
So what is it that calvinists teach that you believe to be false? I mean if you are not a calvinist there must be some things that you believe they are wrong about. So in your opinion, what are they? Where have the calvinists gone wrong? And if you have bible verses showing where the calvinists are wrong, let’s see that also.
Robert