Fatalism - Arminian Grounds for LFW
Edwards' Arguments
In part IV.V and IV.VI Edwards discusses fatalism. He states that because Calvinists affirm the connection between means and the end, they are not fatalists. Further, Edwards has not studied Stoic philosophers, let alone craft his views to mirror theirs.
My Reponses
I admit fatalism is not one of my favorite arguments against Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinists do ignor means and get into trouble on this (i.e. not evangelizing), but not Calvinists. Perhaps there is something to it, but many arguments I see mix assumptions (i.e. a major premise from a Calvinist standpoint and then a minor from an Arminian standpoint).
There is one semi-fatalistic argument that does make some sense to me. It‘s not about means, but rather commencement. If I am seated, I have to tell myself to stand up. The means/end in this case is telling myself to stand/standing. But if I thought I had to be acted upon in order to do so, I would just wait until I was acted upon. If my brain started telling me: “you have to tell yourself to stand”, I would reprehend my brain for deceiving me.
In part IV.V and IV.VI Edwards discusses fatalism. He states that because Calvinists affirm the connection between means and the end, they are not fatalists. Further, Edwards has not studied Stoic philosophers, let alone craft his views to mirror theirs.
My Reponses
I admit fatalism is not one of my favorite arguments against Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinists do ignor means and get into trouble on this (i.e. not evangelizing), but not Calvinists. Perhaps there is something to it, but many arguments I see mix assumptions (i.e. a major premise from a Calvinist standpoint and then a minor from an Arminian standpoint).
There is one semi-fatalistic argument that does make some sense to me. It‘s not about means, but rather commencement. If I am seated, I have to tell myself to stand up. The means/end in this case is telling myself to stand/standing. But if I thought I had to be acted upon in order to do so, I would just wait until I was acted upon. If my brain started telling me: “you have to tell yourself to stand”, I would reprehend my brain for deceiving me.
Comments
It is Theirs to do and mine to receive and experience.
I am further glad that I have made it my part to keep the major thing the major thing.
This would fairly and accurately embrace what the major thing is I keep major:::>
Psa 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!"
If there is a fatal error, it would be missing this TRUTH.
I find that anyone avoiding this TRUTH is of the devil's brew or locked into a fatal relationship with the Beast, the False Prophet, Satan, Death, Hades and those whose names are not found in the book of Life. That's fatal!
Again:
Psa 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!"
This makes for some wonderful Life on earth during the passage of time doing the Will of Him Who sent me:::>
Psa 47:5 God has gone up with a shout, the LORD with the sound of a trumpet.
Psa 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing praises!
Psa 47:7 For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with a psalm!
Psa 47:8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on his holy throne.
Psa 47:9 The princes of the peoples gather as the people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God; he is highly exalted!
I would add one other idea that sets the vision of these things into the mind and heart of anyone willing to receive the Vision of God for mankind:::>
Act 26:14 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
Act 26:15 And I said, 'Who are you, Lord?' And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
Act 26:16 But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you,
Act 26:17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles--to whom I am sending you
Act 26:18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'
Act 26:19 "Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
Now the rub comes from the enemies of both God and man. Here is a good idea of what that rub is and who it is called upon in this lifetime to overcome it:::>
Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,
Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Eph 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.
This brings me back to quoting these Words of Scripture in conclusion of my comments on fatalism and what it is you want for your readers to gain from your blogsphere blog topics and comments:::>
Psa 44:1 To the choirmaster. A Maskil of the Sons of Korah. O God, we have heard with our ears, our fathers have told us, what deeds you performed in their days, in the days of old:
Psa 44:2 you with your own hand drove out the nations, but them you planted; you afflicted the peoples, but them you set free;
Psa 44:3 for not by their own sword did they win the land, nor did their own arm save them, but your right hand and your arm, and the light of your face, for you delighted in them.
Psa 44:4 You are my King, O God; ordain salvation for Jacob!
Psa 44:5 Through you we push down our foes; through your name we tread down those who rise up against us.
Psa 44:6 For not in my bow do I trust, nor can my sword save me.
Psa 44:7 But you have saved us from our foes and have put to shame those who hate us.
Psa 44:8 In God we have boasted continually, and we will give thanks to your name forever. Selah
God be with us in all He is doing!
michael
Concerning this issue of “fatalism”. I believe the major issue is that folks believe that if everything is already predetermined, if their eternal destinies are already decided by someone else before they were ever born, and **that** decision was made apart from them. Then people feel some **resignation**, the feeling that “what does it matter” what I do or do not do, all of our fates are already sealed, so what difference does it make. This is why people are so threatened by “fatalism.” I do not think that most people threatened by it, are thinking that certain events require certain actions and denying that principle.
People want to believe that their actions make a difference, that their decision or actions are somehow involved in the process of salvation and coming into a saving relationship with God (not that their actions save them, but that their actions are real and are part of the process). If someone or their theology completely negates this, by claiming that we do not have free will and that everything is already predetermined, then people will feel threatened that what they do makes no difference. And that feeling that what they do makes no difference is what fuels the dread of “fatalism”.
The calvinist responds to this by engaging in a logical analysis showing that certain events will not occur unless certain other events also occur. This is logical but does not get at what people are dreading about determinism, does not address their real concern. It is similar to when people are experiencing powerful feelings and emotions in connection with the death of a loved one, and at that time giving them a logical and philosophical analysis is not very helpful.
Robert
That's a good point about pointlessness. :-)
God be with you,
Dan