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Showing posts with the label H.5 Perseverance

James White on Romans 8:28-30

In James White’s book, The Potter’s Freedom 1 , he argues for unconditional election based on Romans 8:28-30.   Here's the passage:   Romans 8:28-30: And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. One of the key questions is the meaning of the word foreknow (proginosko).  James White says that foreknowledge means “ chooses to enter into a relationship with ”.  He supports this view by arguing that to determine the meaning of the Greek term proginosko, we should primarily use passages where God is the subject and the object is personal (such as Romans 11:2, 1 Peter 1:20).  He argues “ Obviou...

1 Corinthians 10:13 and Apostasy

1 Corinthians 10:13 states: No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. In my recent debate, I argued: Paul's statement on God's faithfulness is in light of what some Jews did, such as grumble in the dessert.  Not all the Israelites fell into sin, but many did, even though God always provides His people with an exit path. That God does not allow unbearable temptations is a reflection on His faithfulness.   The implication for Paul's audience and for you, dear Christian, is that every time you go through a temptation, God gives you the ability not to succumb.  Sadly we sometimes do give in to temptation, even though we are able to do otherwise. Both Turretinfan and Steve Hays responded that the passage is only talking about ultimate apostasy and that true believers ...

Friday Files: Marshall "The Problem of Apostasy in New Testament Theology"

Marshall, I. Howard’s article "The Problem of Apostasy in New Testament Theology" was part of a symposium in honor of Dale Moody and serves as an epilogue to Marshall’s book Kept by the Power of God: A Study of Perseverance and falling Away. Marshall presents the three reasons Calvinists reject the idea the true believers fall away: 1) they regard the texts which appear to teach the final security of the believer as the clear and central teaching of Scripture, 2) unconditional election and definitive atonement logically lead to perseverance of the elect and 3) the sense of security provide by perseverance of the saints is important to the Christian life. Marshall associates perseverance of the saints with determinism: “on the Calvinist view, the possibility of a return means that the Lord himself must so work in my life that I am preserved from the possibility of falling away by his overruling of my sinful will. Thus we find that perseverance depends on a divine determinism...

Friday Files: Kennard - Petrine Redemption: its Meaning and Extent

Douglas Kennard’s article Petrine Redemption: its Meaning and Extent gives an overview of Peter’s concept of redemption and then dives into 2 Peter 2:1’s statement ‘denying the Lord that bought them’. For Peter, Christ’s death is substitutionary in nature and is like a sacrificial lamb. Kennard argues that for Peter, redemption is not a payment to someone (either God or the devil). Rather it’s simply accomplished. Redemption is a onetime action not a continuing enablement. Redemption is out of a corrupt, sinful life and requires the redeemed to live differently. Redemption for Peter is not equivalent to salvation for Paul. One can be redeemed but not ultimately saved. Regarding 2 Peter 2:1, Kennard defends the view of the apostatizing of unsaved knowers of the truth. Kennard understands Christ to be the ‘Lord’ (despotes) and the redemption (agorazo) to be soteriological. That 'Lord' refers to Christ can be seen in that Christ is the redeemer (1Peter 1:18-19) and since despo...

Friday Files: Davis - The Perseverance of the Saints: A History of the Doctrine

John Davis’ article "The Perseverance of the Saints: A History of the Doctrine" outlines the thought around perseverance and assurance through certain key theologians and churches through the history of the Christianity. Davis starts with Augustine who held that not everyone who is regenerated and justified receives the gift of final perseverance and a person cannot know if they will preserver until the end. Aquinas held a similar view to Augustine. Luther held a similar view as well, but he added that while a person cannot know if they will preserver until the end, they may know that the are currently saved. Calvin’s view was quite different than Augustine, Aquinas and Luther. The elect alone are regenerated and justified and they will preserver until the end. Not only can a person know they are currently saved, but they can also know they will preserver until the end. Further, perseverance is not only grounded in God’s eternal election, but also the nature of regeneratio...

Conversion and Continuation (Response to Steve)

Steve Hays recently called Arminians (and Josh in particular) hypocrites for not opposing my teaching eternal security. ( link ) It’s unclear if he means they should oppose eternal security (since he cites case where Josh does) or if Steve means they should oppose me personally. I normal don’t respond to things like this, but since Steve is accusations others (not me, thought Steve is involving me) I thought I should say something. Steve, please consider assuming a more charitable reason other than hypocrisy for the lack of personal opposition. You’re free to enter, but not to leave. …Both getting saved and staying saved involve the exercise of faith. Believing the Gospel from day to day. Conversion doesn ’t require a different sort of faith than the daily walk of faith. Conversion doesn ’t require a different source of faith than the daily walk of faith. Faith isn ’t a choice; it’s a result of one. Repentance is a choice, but faith is not. So I disagree the inception and continu...

Predestination and Eternal Security

Calvinsts charge Arminians with making predestination irrelevant - something that doesn't impact life. If God already foreknew Bobby will believe in the future, predestination becomes a rubber stamp of what Bobby will do. It's already the future without predestination. Is this charge valid? Arminian views on predestination vary, but for some views (in my opinion those that most clearly and successfully avoid the charge) predestination seems to favor eternal security. The first view that clearly shows how predestination impacts the world is the foreknowledge is or includes middle knowledge. In this view God chooses what circumstances to put someone in, knowing how they would freely respond. This clearly impacts the world, and equally clearly explains how God could prevent apostasy. The second view the clearly shows how predestination impacts life is that predestination impacts the time after the foreknown event. Let's say predestination impacts Bobby's life from the mo...

Sheepkeeper

John 10:26-30 speaks of God's protection. Shank notes that 'following' in verse 27 is present active indicative - which could mean an ongoing action. His point seems to be that you have to follow in order to be protected and further sometimes sheep don't follow so they are unprotected and end up lost. (Shank. Life in the Son. p. 56-60)I derive a different conclusion - Christ's sheep do follow. Let's look at the passage. In John 10:1-6 Christ says that sheep won't follow a stranger, but they follow the shepherd. In John 10:7-8 Christ says others came before, but they were thieves and robbers and the sheep didn't hear them; basically indicating the true Israel was not led astray by false prophets. In “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” " hr...

Don't let me get me

God is both willing ( John 6:39 ) and able to preserve us ( Jude 24 ). To this Robert Shank responds "Our keeping ourselves in His love, in full anticipation of the mercy of our Saviour unto eternal life, is prerequisite to his safekeeping of our souls. We can trust Christ to save us, and we can trust Him to keep us; but we must trust Him." (Shank. Life in the Son. p. 279) But as Pink said: "I’m a hazard to myself, Don’t let me get me, I’m my own worst enemy". If God's not protecting us from ourselves, He's not protecting us. God saves us from the inside out. Shank is really right about one thing and really wrong about another. We do need to trust Christ, but that's not an a prerequisite for His protection - faith is the instrument of His protection ( 1 Peter 1:5 ). Peter understood Christ's protection through experiencing trials; trials he failed but his faith failed not due to Christ's intercession ( Luke 22:31-32 ). Shank sees Peter as a speci...

John 3:16 and Eternal Security

John 3:16 is perhaps the best know verse in scripture because it's one of the simplest expressions of the gospel; it's only rival for popularity that I can think of is Genesis 1:1. It states: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. This seems like a plain statement of Eternal Security, and yet so many that know and love this passage don't hold to ES. What I Eternal Security? Eternal Security is the union of two views: 1) the assurance of salvation and 2) once saved, always saved (OSAS). Assurance is knowing for sure that you are saved. Many folks that hold to falling from grace do think we can have assurance (i.e. I know I am saved today, but I might not be tomorrow). So assurance is not as controversial an element as OSAS. OSAS is the view that if your saved now, you always will be. Those that hold to OSAS must be subdivided into two groups: 1) those that hold perseverance is n...

Can vs. Do True Believers Apostatize

The questions “can salvation be lost?” and “is salvation ever lost?” seem about the same, but one is about the possibility, the other is about the actual occurrence of apostasy. Arminius noted the distinction: a distinction ought to be made between power and action. For it is one thing to declare, that "it is possible for the faithful to fall away from faith and salvation," and it is another to say, that "they do actually fall away." This distinction is of such extensive observance, that even antiquity itself was not afraid of affirming, concerning the elect and those who were to be saved, "that it was possible for them not to be saved;" and that "the mutability by which it was possible for them not to be willing to obey God, was not taken away from them," although it was the opinion of the ancients, "that such persons never would in reality be damned." ( The Apology or Defense of James Arminius – Articles 1 &2 ) At first glance, t...

Can Arminians hold to Eternal Security?

Steve Hays recently pointed out that I believe in Eternal Security and most other people that call themselves Arminians 1 don’t. ( link ) In fact, for many that call themselves Arminians, this question is near and dear to their heart. This isn't a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" issue; questions about security are intensely practical and personal. Looking into “warning passages” may have been what lead them to Arminianism in the first place. They might even view ES as a dangerous doctrine or a license to sin. I can relate, but my journey lead me to a different view of security. Of the two forces binding us to God, love and fear, I find love the strongest. I didn't come by this lightly. I grew up Baptist and was taught ES as a child, but in high school I was so jolted to read the Hebrews warning passages that I questioned a great deal of what I had been taught. Through careful examination and study, I came back to believing Eternal Security is ...

Defining Arminian Soteriology

The purpose of this post is to define Arminian soteriology. Arminianism in general is the views of James Arminius. Of course, Arminius’ views span more then just salvation. They include the freewill of man, God’s providence, the entrance of sin into the world and foreknowledge. This post is specific to the topic of salvation. Arminian soteriology has been variously defined ranging from any non-Calvinist viewpoint to all views that teach falling from grace (a view Arminius didn’t hold). So how shall we define Arminianism? I suggest we look to the past for clarity. In order to define Arminian soteriology we must look back to the historic Calvinist/Arminian debate. Arminianism was debated hotly during James Arminius’ life. After his death in 1609, his followers summarized his views into five points in 1610. These views were debated up until the Synod of Dort in 1619. The Synod issued the Cannons of Dort, which were organized into five points; the five points of Calvinism. Here is a table ...

Friday Files: McKnight on the Hebrew warning passages

Scot McKnight’s article "The warning passages of Hebrews: A formal analysis and Theological Conclusions" reviews the warnings of apostasy in Hebrews 2:1-4, 3:7-4:13, 5:11-6:12, 10:19-39 and 12:1-29 . McKnight identifies four alternative interpretations of the warning passages: hypothetical warnings, false believers, the covenant community and his view, true believers. McKnight identifies four aspects of the passages: “in each warning passage we find: 1) the subjects or audience who are either committing or in danger of committing 2) the sin that leads to 3) the exhortation which, if not followed, leads to 4) the consequences of that sin.” McKnight argues that studying the four warnings in unison helps define each of these four aspects. He sees the audience as true believers, the sin as apostasy from the faith, the exhortations as “persevere in faith and heed the word of God in obedience” and the consequence as eternal damnation. McKnight then engages Nicole’s explanatio...

Friday Files: Cameron's Arminus- Hero or Heretic?

Charles Cameron’s article, “Arminius―Hero or Heretic?” explains that James Arminius comes as a bit of a surprise to both Calvinists and Arminians today, as he is closer to Calvinism than people expect. Cameron starts with some preliminaries about Arminius (his affinity for Calvin’s commentaries, his approach to reconciling differences and his commitment to scripture) and then dives into the 5 points of Calvinism. On Total Depravity, Cameron notes Arminius’ focus on grace, not freewill. On Election, Arminius teaches a Christocentric, evangelical, eternal, decree whereby God chooses to save believers. Cameron questions the “from eternity” and “based on foreknowledge” aspect of Arminius’ explanation of election. On the Atonement, Arminius avoids universalism, but advocates God’s universal love and the availability of forgiveness for all. On Grace, Arminius avoids deterministic necessity, but affirms man’s dependence on God’s grace. On Perseverance, Cameron notes that Arminius does n...

Suggested Reading List for Arminian Newbies

When I first started learning about Arminianism , I didn't know who I should read. There wasn't much out there at that time and I didn't know where to go, so I just read Arminius himself. That was hard. He's very good, but I could have used an introduction first. Here's a few books I have read over the years, and if I had to do it over again, I would have read them in this order: Intro to Arminianism - Just Getting Started 1. Arminian Theology - Myths and Realities by Rodger Olsen Great at explaining what Arminians believe and don't believe. 2. Life in the Son by Robert Shank Excellent Exegeses of most passages dealing with falling from grace. 3. Free Grace a sermon by John Wesley Gives a short critique of Calvinism. Intermediate Arminianism - Putting the Pieces Together 4. Why I am not a Calvinist by Jerry Walls and Joe Dongell Strong systematic approach and solid Arminian reasoning. 5. Elect in the Son by Robert Shank A case for corporate election....

Tag org part 2

second half A PROLOG, B GOD, C CREATION, D PROVIDENCE, E PREDESTINATION, F THE LAW, G THE GOSPEL, H SOTERIOLOGY, H.1 Conditional Election, H.2 Depravity, H.3 Christ's death, H.4 Resistible Grace, H.5 Perseverance, I THE CHURCH, W HISTORY, X DEBATES, Y COWBOYS, Z ABOUT ME

Is Compatibalism Mutually Exclusive with Arminianism?

Yes, they are mutually exclusive. Both can't be true at the same time. Compatiblism is the idea that determinism is compatible with human freedom. Determinism is the idea that everything that happens had a preceding cause such that it necessarily happens and the opposite cannot happen. Freedom (as compatiblists explain it) is freedom from compulsion. IE no one is forcing you to do something you don't want to do. You are able to act according to your strongest desire. However you are unable to act contrary to your strongest desire. And that desire comes from our nature and our nature comes in part from God's creating us the way He did and in part from God putting us in the circumstances He does, and in no part from us as an indeterministic cause of our actions. Arminianism is both a philosophical and a soterialogical system. As a philosophical system, it embraces libertarian free will and denies determinism outright. This can be seen clearly from the writings of it...
Here's the 5 th and final article of the Remonstrants: ART. V. That those who an incorporated into Christ by a true faith, and have thereby become partakers of his lifegiving spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own flesh, and to win the victory, it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand; and if only they are ready for the conflict. and desire his help, and are not inactive, keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled, nor plucked out of Christ's hands, according to the word of Christ, John x. 28: "Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." But whether they are capable. through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginnings of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away from the holy doc...